Obama's exit interview

President Obama will soon be leaving the job he has held for almost 8 years. Often when someone leaves their job, it is helpful for the employer to do an “exit interview.” Since I am a citizen of the USA, I am technically one of his many bosses. If you were to have an opportunity to interview him on the way out, what would you ask?




If you were a supporter you would be kind, respectful and favorable in your questions. If you were not a supporter, you should be respectful and kind, but you may ask tougher questions, like explain sanctuary cities, IRS abuse, bigger government, and so forth.

I have a totally different idea than either of these. I do not wish to agree or debate his public policy. I have a much bigger and serious line of questioning for Obama.

Here is a shot at what that interview might look like:

Me: “Mr. Obama, you are shortly going to be an ex-President, so as a citizen of the USA, I would like to ask you a few questions. Is that OK?”
Obama: “Of course, I will answer whatever is on your mind.”
Me: “OK, let’s get started. You have made social justice a centerpiece of your presidency. You have said “enacting social justice is the primary role of the Supreme Court.” I don’t know for sure, but I think you use some form of this phrase in every speech, maybe even every conversation that is not conducted on the golf course. Can I ask you about this topic?”
Obama: “Oh yes, it is my favorite thing to talk about.”
Me: “Is there anything you think is more important than justice?”
Obama: “maybe my family.”
Me: “of course, I mean social value.”
Obama: “I can’t think of anything more important.”

Me: “That’s what I thought. So, what does ‘justice’ mean?”
Obama: “well, I think it means being fair.”
Me: “what does ‘being fair’ mean?”
Obama: “oh, you know, doing the right thing for everybody concerned.”
Me: “How do we know what is right for everybody?”
Obama: “oh, you know, being fair. Ugh, I can’t use the word to define a word can I?”
Me: “not exactly. But there’s a bigger issue than a circular argument for the meaning of justice.”

Obama: “Really, how can there ever be anything wrong with justice?”
Me: “Well, let’s assume it means fair.”
Obama: “OK, I am with you so far.”
Me: “The problem with ‘fair’ is that there are at least three ways to be fair.”
Obama: “Really? I have never heard that. What are the three?”
Me: “There is equity, or getting what you deserve. There is need, giving people according to their deficit. Then there is equality, giving everyone the same.

Obama: “I like all of them, when I say justice I mean all of those ways to be fair.”
Me: “OK, but they contradict each other. Only one can apply in a situation.”
Obama: “what do you mean?”
Me: “If you want to give according to people’s need, then everyone would not get the same since everyone doesn’t have the same need.”
Obama: “oh!”
Me: “If you give people what they deserve, then everyone would not necessarily get what they need and everyone would certainly not get the same. Why do you live in the White House and many others live in a ghetto? If justice meant equality, you would not have different housing than others.”
Obama: “oh, I see the issue.”

Me: “guess what!”
Obama: “what?”
Me: “Justice means only one of the 3 types of fairness.”
Obama: “Really, which one?”
Me: “Getting what you deserve.”
Obama: “Oh, but I like them all.”

Me: “of course you do, all three are attractive to everybody. But you cannot be fair. Its impossible, because when you apply one type you violate the other 2.”
Obama: “wow, that is crazy. I think we need to be fair and you say its impossible.”
Me: “yeah, and when you support sanctuary cities in the name of justice, you are wrong.”
Obama: “I don’t understand. It feels right. I am being nice to people who are in need. How can it be wrong?”
Me: “It may feel right, but justice means getting what you deserve, which is application of law. It’s actually injustice when you apply the law in ways it is not intended. You are not giving some people, those who came here illegally, what they deserve. So you are not being just.”
Obama: “But it seems the Christian thing to do. So maybe social justice is doing for people what Jesus would do. I value doing good things for people, isn’t that what Jesus would do?” 

Me: “Oh, so your focus on social justice comes from your religious faith.”
Obama: “yes, that’s it. Social justice is about doing good like Jesus taught us.”
Me: “Why are you a Christian?”
Obama: “oh my, I probably would never had been elected if I was not. (laughingly)”
Me: “That’s probably true, but its not a reason to be a Christian. You just think its better than all the other religions?”
Obama: “Well, I can’t say it’s better because that would be discriminating. I value tolerance, too.”
Me: “So you just kind of picked Christianity to be your religion, but in the end it doesn’t really matter? You could be just as happy if you were Muslim or Hindu. After all, they value social justice and doing good too.”
Obama: “I guess so. We’re all trying to get to the same place, aren’t we?”

Me: “It’s an interesting question. Do we value social justice first and then pick a religion that agrees, or do we accept a faith we trust is true and then see what it says to us about justice?”
Obama: “Wouldn’t I get to the same place of seeing justice as the most important thing.”
Me: “next to tolerance?”
Obama: Oh, yeah, if I give someone what they deserve, which is justice, I cannot accept whatever they do without punishment. Wow, now I am really confused.”

Me: “Don’t be too hard on yourself, what if I told you that many Republicans, evangelical Christians, right wing nuts, and conservative pastors see social justice just like you. They think it is the major theme of Christianity the same way you got there. But they are wrong too.”


Obama: “Really? We agree on the priority of justice as a Christian and we are on totally different ends of the policy debate and we are both wrong?”
Me: “That’s right.”

Obama: “I am pretty confused now. I don’t think I want to discuss this anymore. It is upsetting me.”
Me: “Ok, one last thought. If you think Christians are supposed to do what Jesus taught and in fact what he did, guess what?”
Obama: “What?”
Me: “he suffered and died on the cross so we don’t have to be concerned about justice.”
Obama: “What? He is known across the world as a 'do-gooder.' Doing the right thing for people. He’s the King of fair.”
Me: “That’s the way many think. But, when we are obsessed with justice we are in fact denying Jesus, not following him.”
Obama: “Now you really are crazy. I think this interview is over.”

Me: “It can be if you wish. But if you are serious about being a Christian, then you first must see it is very different from all other religious faiths. The good news, btw, that is where we get the term “The Gospel”, is that while God is just, that’s not what He wants from us.”
Obama: “Wait, I don’t like that, I like justice. I have based all of my policies and in fact all of my life on being fair, I mean valuing social justice. Doing good is why everyone likes me.”
Me: “Then you are just acting according to your human nature, not your faith in Christ. Being fair is not what makes you good.”
Obama: “My human nature? Isn't that a good thing?”
Me: “No, that's a myth. It is our flesh or human nature that influences us to seek justice. We want things to be fair because then we can earn favor on our own by being good. But a Christian has been transformed by the Cross. It is then Grace, the opposite of justice that drives our passions. It is how we make unmerited favor operative in our lives that is the outcome of our faith in Christ. Only then are we really different from the world, who are all about justice.How can the redeemed soul and the unredeemed soul have the same priority?”
Obama: “I don’t know if I buy that. I need to ponder that a while.”

Me: "If that isn't enough, here is one concluding thought. Justice is the strict, objective  application of rewards and punishment according to the law. You actually don't seem to be as sold on justice as you think you are. It seems you have confused justice with tolerance (meaning relative truth). BTW, Jesus did not invade the world and indeed our lives to make us better at either."
Obama: “Ugh"

Interview ended!!

I suspect we all need to ponder that. We probably all need to ponder the revolutionary power of transforming Grace. This is the mission of b4Worldview. Before you can develop the Christian worldview on any topic, you must have Kingdom core assumptions that are anchored in Grace, not reward and punishment systems of justice. You must see knowledge,truth, and faith different from what is normal to your human nature. Otherwise, you lose the battle before you start……